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TOPIC: Transient Designers/shapers

Transient Designers/shapers 2 years 7 months ago #23185

  • Jemeneye
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Hello people,

I hope you're doing well and please don't feel bad that I'm not commenting on all of your songs- mostly bc I'm not skilled enough on mine to give you the best feedback. Anyways, I'm not much of a plugin guy bc I bought Live 9 Suite and I think if you're worth your weight as far as production goes you should be able to create a good enough sound without having to dable in plugins... anyway, i just watched Kill Paris give a demo on www.uaudio.com/store/special-processing/...nsient-designer.html

It's pretty amazing and sounds bad ass. However........ can't you just replicate what it doing using your own know-how???? For instance, If one of my drum hits sounds sub-par I would just emphasize/boost the appropriate frequencies, and tailor them to taste along with adjusting volume envelopes?... Compression could help although I'm not the biggest fan of using it too frequently. The demo he did was pretty cool and very desirable but I feel you can replicate it by busting out your EQ and many other FX.... Am I missing something. I don't ming spending the $100, but I feel like i may be taking an easy way out. For instance, If I want more punch I'll EQ out the frequencies I don't want then add an operator to add some more power in the low end the EQ/compress to taste. Or I'll boost some volume. I'm not saying I'm the best sound sculptor but I want to know if I may be wasting money. Someone (or multiple people) chime in and educated us some.

This was the video I watched...
Last Edit: 2 years 7 months ago by Jemeneye.
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Transient Designers/shapers 2 years 7 months ago #23186

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when i talked about adding punch I meant to say adjusting the Pitch envelope, sorry I've had a few beers and I'm not communicating as well as I'd like to. Cheers guys..
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Transient Designers/shapers 2 years 7 months ago #23188

  • Mr Fork
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I think the problem at hand is not being able to fully define what you want. Alot of times when I can't find an answer it's because I'm not asking the right question because I'm mixing terminology. Things that I think do one thing but do another. For instance in your post here you mentioned pitch envelope and transient shaper. The two of them do different things. You probably know this but I found that I was slightly confused. Are you asking about transient shapers (which the closest thing I can equate to is a volume envelope) or are you talking about pitch envelope which, of course, controls pitch over time. For any plugin you find you CAN recreate what they're doing (at least that I have found within reason). There are proprietary algorithms and such that may do things slightly differently etc. The question is cost versus time. Do you want to learn what it does which may take time or just pay some money. Ableton has a transient shaper that comes with live. Most people just don't use it for various reasons including they didn't know. The best way I can think of describing this to you is this. Pull up a kick drum sample in live. Not a clip just a sample of a single kick drum. Don't put it in a sampler just set it up as a clip that can be triggered. Open it up in the sample view window. Then open up your volume envelope. Right off the bat you'll see that the volume envelope is flat. What if I wanted to make the initial hit of the kick (or transient) louder. Just that first part. What would you do. You'd create a couple points on the envelope and then drag that section up right? Or highlight a section and drag up. I mean by now you know how to raise and lower the volume of something using automation. Trick is that's what the transient shaper is doing. The "attack" knob on the transient shaper typically controls the volume of the initial transient. If you were following along with what I was saying you just did that yourself by adjusting the volume envelope. The difference being the transient shaper detects the transient automatically. Versus you doing it manually using a pitch envelope. The "sustain" knob on those devices is the same concept but it's everything AFTER the initial transient. So likewise you could control the sustain in the same way using a volume envelope. Now of course you won't want to do this for every kick but if you do it for one kick and then copy it and make a clip you have essentially done the same thing as the shaper has done.

Now I know you're thinking....hey didn't he mention live has one?? Yes. A transient shaper is a form of compression. Most of the time it's used as a reverse compression. Live's basic compressor plugin has an "expand" mode as an option that you can choose. Instead of peak and rms. When you choose expand it uses reverse compression to bring the level of an item up instead of down depending on your settings. This is how I did my transient shaping before I picked up the NI transient master plugin. There are also free transient shaper plugins as well.

When you're talking pitch envelope.....assuming you are wanting to know how to do that as well it's going to depend on what you're doing. For instance if you're using a synth you would just need to modulate the pitch of your oscillator with an envelope. Operator and Analog even have a dedicated pitch envelope ready to go for you. If you are using a sample then I recommend just throwing it in a simpler or sampler instance and use the pitch envelope. Try bringing it up 12 semitones and messing with the ADSR until it sounds right. I hope that helps and I hope that I understood your question correctly. If you have any further questions just post again.
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Transient Designers/shapers 2 years 7 months ago #23192

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Thanks Fork for taking the time to write that and for sharing your thoughts. I was most interested in the Transient Shaper for drum/percussion sounds to make them as powerful and punchy as possible. I picked up the Quantize Course on making great Kick Drums (which also lends itself well to making other drum/percs as well). I feel pretty comfortable using Operator to create my own Kicks as well as manipulating and layering samples in Sampler/Simpler to get the sounds I want. It does take time but I'm ok with it. The underlying point of what I was hoping the reader was to understand was; assuming you know how to create your own drums sounds using a variety of different tools at our finger tips found natively in live, would there be any advantage to picking up a transient shaper/designer? In what you wrote I think you figured out the underlying point I tried to get across along with providing some basic knowledge that I think can also help other members on this site- so thanks.

Essentially I think you answered my question. I had a feeling that the transient shaper/designer is a useful plugin if you don't know how to manipulate your sounds (whether from a synthesizer used to create them) or from samples to achieve the sound you want. I wanted to get some perspective bc I figured if perhaps it was a unique algorithm, it could turn my created drum sounds into even more powerful drum hits, and it would appear that it is mostly a time saver for someone who doesn't want to put in that work or for someone who may not know the information to do it on there own.
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Transient Designers/shapers 2 years 7 months ago #23195

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There are other ways of getting the same effect as a transient shaper yes. As to "taking the easy way out"....well.....yeah.......but is that such a bad thing. To put that another way how much is your time worth to you. If you WANT to learn how to go through and do this stuff without a plugin then great but then let me ask you this....do you use compression plugins....delay plugins....etc. I know the answer is yes. You can do compression without having a compressor but sometimes it saves you a ton of time to use the compressor instead of making a million automation edits. Same with delay. You could chop the audio yourself and manually reduce the volume etc as you go but it's much faster to use the effect. If the goal is to write music and there is an affordable tool that helps you design better sounds faster I don't consider it "the easy way out" to use it. You don't even need to buy the one they mentioned. There are other plugins not to mention free ones not to mention ableton's built in one.

I'd check this one out for sure. Lots of good options here.
www.musicradar.com/us/computermusic/tran...nsient-shaper-598692

There are also these too.
bedroomproducersblog.com/2012/01/05/bpb-...haper-vstau-plugins/
bedroomproducersblog.com/2014/11/03/transient-audio-assault/
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