Forum Information

Dear users, I have decided to phase out the posting on the forums on this website and move any discussions over to this private facebook group. While the forums were great 10 years ago, they are now difficult to maintain due to constant spam. I spend most of my time just cleaning them up, rather than interacting. This, combined with finding it difficult to directly communicate with other users through several different social media platforms, I have decided to consolodate it all to one group where people can chat with me, ask questions and jibber jabber with other users on a regular basis. I will not make the forums offline as there is a wealth of content, but posting has now been disabled. Thanks to all those who have contributed over the years, and I'll see you over on the Facebook group! -Tom

Welcome, Guest

TOPIC: Hi Hats and Percussion Patterns for EDM drops?

Hi Hats and Percussion Patterns for EDM drops? 2 years 9 months ago #22971

  • FLPnotc
  • FLPnotc's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Fundamental (Fresh Boarder)
  • Posts: 5
Is there a tutorial on explaining the time signatures of the patterns on "festival trap"(edit) edm not the regular fast on beat ones but
Specifically the hihats and the percussion where it sort of sounds off beat and a little behind but it still on beat?

I have looked everywhere with no luck. I tried recreating them also with no luck....
any advice would be great.

Another tutorial I would like to see is what key is trap usually on? and how do people come up with there leads and lazer sounds? pattern wise and what keys...

Thanks
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by FLPnotc.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Hi Hats and Percussion Patterns for EDM drops? 2 years 8 months ago #22996

  • zeb
  • zeb's Avatar
  • Offline
  • 2nd Harmonic (Senior Boarder)
  • Posts: 63
  • Thank you received: 25
Eyup
"any advice would be great", well this may be a small help til someone gives a more in depth answer...

"sounds off beat and a little behind but it still on beat"
Here I would guess that it is a side effect of one of these factors...

VELOCITY= Vary the velocity by drawing in an automation pattern. Experiment with the shape, you probably will find that repetition of the shape will be pleasing. By velocity I really mean loudness, but with some drum files they sound different where the velocity changes. Its like the force with which the drummer hits it.

TIMING= Playing in a pattern with a keyboard or similar, then quantizing to a degree of your choice MAY be the effect you are talking about. Some notes will be a little out, this is good when trying to emulate an actual drummer.
OR It could be a side-effect of a part which is in 16ths suddenly having a run of 32nds. (set this in the piano roll/beat map of your drum, the value is in the bottom right of where you place in the hits). I think my guess is this is what your talking about, tho could be wrong.

EFFECTS= Within your DAW, try varying a parameter within the instrument, or adding a reverb etc. This can make nice sweep noises and such, but I doubt it's what you mean. Subtle use of delay effects can work wonders on hi hats. Same with phasing. Not sure if thats trap tho (yet?). Automate.

"What key is trap usually on?"
As a guess I'd say Pentatonic Major, Pentatonic Minor, and perhaps Dorian, but should work with any scale. Unless you mean key, like C etc, in which case I assume all of them, they would change key when a DJ's record player sped up or down.

"How do people come up with there leads and lazer sounds? pattern wise and what keys..."
Sound design is one of my weaker areas... I usually just find sounds I like and tweek them a bit! Lazy I know.
Maybe ask again with that in the title. There was a thread here before called "Lightsaber Bass" that you can search for.
Pattern wise just think about speech. Say a sentence in different ways... the effect is different each way you say it.
Apparently we developed voice boxes long before speech, so we can communicate via sound without specific words. In a way we can communicate more directly.
For leads, you have to develop your technique on your instrument and experiment until you can play things you mean to. Scales get you there a bit quicker I reckon.
As a guess lasers and whatnot are created by drawing in automation rather than patterns and keys.


I have to admit, Trap has been going on without my noticing. Sounds cool, I know DnB a bit better, sounds like its grandad or something, along with a few other genres. But I can't really help you that much with it. I've been listening to it just now, and have not yet heard the off beat effect. It may be one of the things I suggest above. Maybe not tho..

Maybe you will find something of use in here, especially at 10 mins 50secs;


Not ableton (or trap) but ableton can do all this. Just here to get you thinking
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by zeb.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: FLPnotc

Hi Hats and Percussion Patterns for EDM drops? 2 years 8 months ago #22999

  • FLPnotc
  • FLPnotc's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Fundamental (Fresh Boarder)
  • Posts: 5
Thanks for replying with a real in depth answer.

I will give these a try.

Anything more on timing would be great. When hearing other peoples work you can hear two different hi hats doing rolls and being off beat and the other one doing the same thing but in a different pattern but it all works together? Anything on that type of stuff would be great also. I tried doing it with a lot of noise not music.

on another note:
I also was working on something this weekend. It just dawned on me that trap is more like sampled hits with tons of reverb and also tons of fx one hits.
Add the 808's and the hi hat rolls. and also don't forget the vocal chops. Making the drops drop....
With that all setup you add your risers and sweeps
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Hi Hats and Percussion Patterns for EDM drops? 2 years 8 months ago #23006

  • zeb
  • zeb's Avatar
  • Offline
  • 2nd Harmonic (Senior Boarder)
  • Posts: 63
  • Thank you received: 25
Hmmm... Check out the bit on 'Cross Rhythm' in the first video, 25 mins in... that could well be what you mean...

Here's a different fun thing you can try... a 4 bar beat with a 5 bar chord sequence. As the beat finishes it's fourth cycle, the chord sequence is on the first chord of its (fourth) sequence. Sounds different.
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by zeb.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Hi Hats and Percussion Patterns for EDM drops? 2 years 8 months ago #23008

  • dopeGee
  • dopeGee's Avatar
  • Offline
  • 3rd Harmonic (Expert Boarder)
  • Posts: 134
  • Thank you received: 28
Great tips from the rest of the crew but i believe the question below can be answered far more directly;

"Specifically the hihats and the percussion where it sort of sounds off beat and a little behind but it still on beat?"

I personally dont fuck with all that much trap music espeicially production but i do mix a bit of it and i think that "trap hat" vibe you are after lies in programming triplet hats √√√ (right click on your grid and select triplet grid - place some hats around your main beat and you will hear it when you have it right :) do it alongside a trap beat you like and you will hear when you have the hat roll sitting right



alternatively there will be a ton of videos on triplet drum programming on youtube :)

Hope that helps g
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The following user(s) said Thank You: zeb

Hi Hats and Percussion Patterns for EDM drops? 2 years 8 months ago #23009

  • dopeGee
  • dopeGee's Avatar
  • Offline
  • 3rd Harmonic (Expert Boarder)
  • Posts: 134
  • Thank you received: 28
Key wise - experiment, there is no rule.

Drum kits are predominantly based on a roland 808 kit altho modern trap/edm beats dont rely on this classic as heavily as older and more traditional southern trap. Learning a bit about the history of trap music may help, it has actually been around for some time and changed a lot over time - there is always lessons to learn from observing how the classics were composed :)
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Hi Hats and Percussion Patterns for EDM drops? 2 years 8 months ago #23016

  • FLPnotc
  • FLPnotc's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Fundamental (Fresh Boarder)
  • Posts: 5
soundcloud.com/trapmusic/sean-curtis-cap...com-exclusive#t=2:33

more like this kind of hi hat pattern @ the 2:35 mark until the end of song

I guess the genre is more "festival trap"

There are more examples I could find but this is kind of what I was getting at.
Where there is a hi hat going but other percussion and hi hat seem a little off ish.... with added hi hats
Ill try to find the perfect example today

Either way the video about the history of drum patterns helped tremendously. Understanding there isn't just one way to skin a cat turned the lightbulb on in my head....

Thanks

And Tiplets I believe is what I am talking about when I said off beat hi hats....
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by FLPnotc.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Hi Hats and Percussion Patterns for EDM drops? 2 years 8 months ago #23017

  • FLPnotc
  • FLPnotc's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Fundamental (Fresh Boarder)
  • Posts: 5
soundcloud.com/trapmusic/kuso-kurae-dest...ray-volpe-vip#t=2:55

Here's one Where I believe they changed the time signature

Is there tip or tutorials to get my head wrapped around this.

When changing time signatures do you have to changes all the instrument patterns to fit in the new time signature?
Or can you say leave you drum pattern as is and then add synth that hast the off beat time signature. I guess I can experiment with that. But knowledge on anything like this would be great.

Thanks for any comments.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Hi Hats and Percussion Patterns for EDM drops? 2 years 8 months ago #23018

  • zeb
  • zeb's Avatar
  • Offline
  • 2nd Harmonic (Senior Boarder)
  • Posts: 63
  • Thank you received: 25
That swaps between 3/4 and 4/4.
In ableton go to the top panel and from the top left, you'll see "TAP", the tempo (e.g."120"), 2 nudge buttons, then the time signature ("4/4")
Thats what you want to mess with. Click on the first 4 and drag down.
To set a change in arrangement view, right click and hold just below where the time is displayed on the grid display (I mean that ruler thing that runs across the top of the arrangement that says where you are in the song. Just below there.)
Type in what you want..
Not sure how you do this if you prefer session view...
Think you prob know this already.

A 3/4 pattern would repeat four times in three 4/4 parts. (and eight in six 4/4s, twelve in nine etc)
If you wanted the 4/4 beat to be the main I guess you could have three 3/4 and one 4/4 to match to the four 4/4's.
Actually repeat it twelve times to get sixteen 3/4's, then maybe it would work in like a 12 bar blues type thing...
Not really sure tho. But I think you'd want the two rhythms to sync up at key times. Think of two differently undulating lines, you'd want them to both be at zero at the end of the chorus or whatever. Just trying to figure it out myself...
Check out this for 7/8,
Count along to 7


If you check out "fear of fours" by Lamb there's lots of weird time signatures there...
From Wikipedia; "The fourth track is not included on the album's track listing. It is a single struck chord which effectively ends the song "B Line" preceding it. This deliberate omission is a nod to the album's title, whose sentiment is revealed in a deeper level throughout the album: unusual time signatures. "Soft Mistake" is in 10/8. "B Line" is driven by a prominent bass line in 6/8, followed by the single note track 4. "Less Than Two" is in 12/8, backed by a repeating twelve beat phrase "needing you wanting you loving you holding you", and "Softly" is in 6/8. "Alien" continues in 12/8, although the rhythms are at times ambiguous. "Five", the most intricate yet, is in 5/8,5/8,5/8,5/8,5/8,6/8,5/8,6/8, which could also be written as 10/8,10/8,11/8,11/8. "Lullaby" rounds off the album in a slow, lazy 3/4 time. "Little Things" has a rather complex rhythmic pattern, which nevertheless converges to 4/4, or a multiple, depending on notation.

"However some of the tracks are more conventional: "All In Your Hands", "Bonfire", "Ear Parcel", "Fly" all have time signatures which are at least divisible by 2 or 4, even though they may not be written as 4/4 per se. "Here" again has a 4/4 structure to it, though the bass plays rhythms which stress this as 3+3+2/8."

Not saying I understand all that! Maybe someone else could shed some light?



"Silent night" is 3/4
Here, 30 seconds is 3/4
then goes 4/4. Is that trap then?

Most folk and waltz etc. used to be in that 3/4, I heard that it was the influence of American forms like charlestown, ragtime and blues that changed tastes in the early C20th, in my country anyway.
Not sure if thats right, but listen to a really old tune and you'll prob see. Interesting that it might change again.
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by zeb.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Hi Hats and Percussion Patterns for EDM drops? 2 years 8 months ago #23024

  • zeb
  • zeb's Avatar
  • Offline
  • 2nd Harmonic (Senior Boarder)
  • Posts: 63
  • Thank you received: 25
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/t...theora.ogv.360p.webm
maybe getting a bit off topic here...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature
Half way down the page is "Video samples for irrational meters", the 2nd one is melding an even beat with an odd beat.
I'm wading way out of my depth here, but hey that's where the big fish are (or beard stroky music that nobody likes)
Hope I'm not confusing matters for you!
Keep it as simple as you like, complicated does not neccesarily mean good. If you like it it is good.
Cheers for the question tho, got me thinking :silly: (even if not about what you actually asked)
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by zeb.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Hi Hats and Percussion Patterns for EDM drops? 2 years 8 months ago #23026

  • FLPnotc
  • FLPnotc's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Fundamental (Fresh Boarder)
  • Posts: 5


This is probably what I was getting at.

So pretty much keep everything 4/4 but on piano roll change to 1/3 to get the feel of "off beat feel" to get the 6/8 feel.....
While still keeping the beat on 4/4 you can change the feel of the hi hats or synth....
If that makes sense...

Thaks guys
Last Edit: 2 years 8 months ago by FLPnotc.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Please publish modules in offcanvas position.

Cron Job Starts